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Poster: Barbacana Date: Nov 29, 2008 9:23am
Forum: web Subject: Lack of response to deletion requests

I notice a few threads here in which people have requested that their pages be removed from the archive. In at least one case, it seems clear to me that the Internet Archive is violating the author's copyright by continuing to make the pages available (I'm not a lawyer, though).

I find this disturbing. I think that as long as the Internet Archive is unresponsive to legitimate deletion requests, a responsible webmaster has no choice but to exclude all websites under his/her control from the IA crawler by means of the robots.txt file. I'm going to do that for all the web sites I control.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffPaulForrest Date: Dec 10, 2008 9:27am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

To add to this general feeling of unease (or maybe to help it), the Archive does respond to these requests. We take them seriously (even when they are not), we research each one individually. We are not interested in having materials that people do not want up there. We crawl the public web and do offer a policy to exclude information that people request to take down. They need to verify their request, however, since we would like to honor the original owner's intentions.

If we move slowly, it's because we are very busy. I've said it other places, but just one person handles the exclusions. It's not the only thing that person does. We don't have funding to have more than that. You are welcome to donate so that we have more resources, but I somehow doubt anyone here is willing to do so.

If you don't like what we do, you are not obligated to use our resource.

Paul Forrest Hickman

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Dec 10, 2008 4:07pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Response to deletion requests

Hi Paul, some may just be confused over the kind of requests that people write into the forum. I wrote about it the other day here:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=220035

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2008-12-11 00:07:51

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffPaulForrest Date: Dec 10, 2008 4:19pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Response to deletion requests

Thanks Diana! You rock.
Paul

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Poster: wellness7 Date: Jan 27, 2009 3:15pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Response to deletion requests

Yes, they _do_ violate copyright for my images and texts.

I am having the same problem removing my sites from the archive:
http://www.wellness-heaven.net/
and
http://www.dax-prognose.de/

Editing robots.txt didnt help ...
Do they read emails, really?

Cheers Georg

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Poster: kustota Date: Jan 27, 2009 11:59pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Response to deletion requests

by the way, if IA is blocked from your site by .htaccess, how is IA crawler going to see your robots.txt? i guess you'll have to remove .htaccess restriction first...

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Poster: kustota Date: Jan 27, 2009 11:47pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Response to deletion requests

first, there is no robots.txt on dax-prognose.de;
second, it takes time for IA to crawl your robots.txt and see that archiving is forbidden. so you'll have to wait a little.

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Poster: kustota Date: Nov 29, 2008 9:54am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

this is not so clear as you think. first, if somebody just claims himself the copyright holder doesnt prove anything, he must provide legal proof. if you think IA must remove archives without legal proof, think again:
"Actual knowledge of infringement

The law also requires "actual knowledge" of infringement before action must be taken. Actual knowledge is not an opinion about infringement i.e. "I think this is infringing" or "this is copied from another site, therefore it is infringing". Since the OSP may have some potential liability to a customer under contract law for inappropriately removing the customer's material, waiting for infringement notifications before acting would appear to be a prudent course. Then, the material can be removed, with the safe harbor protecting the OSP from liability both from the customer and the third party."
(quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitation_Act)

also, consider google search results (for example): is it copyright infringement? is part of your website "published" when it comes up in google search?

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Poster: Barbacana Date: Nov 29, 2008 1:41pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

You don't seem to have read carefully either my post, or the Wikipedia article which you cite.

The Wikipedia article is about a safe harbor provision of the DMCA. To take advantage of it, the service provider must, as the article says, "promptly take down content if someone alleges it infringes their copyrights." Note: alleges, not proves.

Your comments about Google are not relevant, let's stay on topic.

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Poster: jonc Date: Nov 29, 2008 10:24am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

You're entitled to do that. Keep in mind, though, this is the only place some of these pages are preserved, and IA takes their role seriously. If someone simply posts a message on this board saying "remove me", should IA act without some confirmation?

This post was modified by jonc on 2008-11-29 18:24:28

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Poster: Barbacana Date: Nov 29, 2008 12:32pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

'If someone simply posts a message on this board saying "remove me", should IA act without some confirmation?'

No, of course not! But as I said in my post, some of the requests do seem to be backed up by reasonable evidence that the requester is the copyright owner - more than would be required for a DMCA takedown notice, for example.

If the policy of IA is to ignore everything short of a DMCA takedown notice, then it's going to get a lot more DMCA takedown notices.

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Poster: jonc Date: Nov 30, 2008 7:44am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

From what I've noticed pages and sites are blocked or removed when a "robots.txt" is implemented. In Santtu's case this is not possible, and Santtu hasn't yet proven that he's the owner. So far he has provided a photo, which IA can't verify is Santtu's unless he also has a photo on his website. Additionally, people have photos widely available on the Web, and there is no way of verifying that the photo is actually from the owner.

I'm sure that Santtu's case will eventually be resolved, I doubt Santtu's an impostor. He doesn't seem to have tried everything that's been suggested to her so far. If his website was hosted by someone else, there is likely a record of it somewhere, with information only Santtu could provide.

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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 1, 2008 2:41am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

That is not true that I have not proofed that the pages are mine. In the latest email to Grabmiller I gave a link to one archived page wich was corrupted in the archive. Then I took also a non-corrupted screenshot of the original page. How can I do that if I don't have the orginal non corrupted pages? Tell me?


Here is my latest email to Lance Grabmiller. (I have removed the link to the page archives and my name from the copy witch I put to this forum.)


Email to Mr. Grambiller:

------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately I must continue this discussion.

Check the page http://web.archive.org/web/...(cencored)...

There are text: "Kuvat ja teksti © ****** *********"
In English: "Pictures and text © ****** *********"

There are NOT text: "Pictures and text © Lance Grabmiller"


The Wayback machine violate copyrights of the orignal page owners when they copy peoples pages to the archive and republish the material to wich they have no copyright. Actually you should give a proof that you have right to the material wich you publish at your websites. You treat my pages as if you would own them. Why I must make huge efforts to get the control of my own pages back to me? You have stolen the page control. If I have changed my opinion of some subject wich I have published on internet on my pages, I have a right to remove the original opion page from publicity. But Mr. Lance Grabmiller believes that he is some kind of God who can do what ever he wants to my websites. And now I must humble pray him to remove my pages.



Anyway I am not under obligation to proof anything to you. It is enough that I give the all proof to lawyers. You viloate the page owners rights! And you will lose the case.


You can find a moderated questbook from my webpages. The questbook is still working though webpages not. (The questbook is an external service.) If you leave a message there I am able to read it though the questbook is moderated. It is also a proof that the pages are mine.

Most my webpages on your archive are corrupted. Compare the above link to the uncorrupted screenshot wich I have attached to this email. (I have the pages still available locally in my computer.)

------- email end ----------------

PS 1. I don't want to give my whole uncorrupted newest webpages to anybody. (Newest version = year 2003)

PS 2. If you put the tag to your pages, then they are not indexed by Google. When my pages were new, I wanted that they were found by Google. But now the situation is different. Many things have changed. When I published my pages, I didn't even know anything about that tag.

PS 3. My personal information and photo at my pages were abused by criminals. So I removed all personal information from the pages. So warning to everybody: NEVER PUT ANYTHING PERSONAL TO WEB. And never write anything with your own name to blogs etc. That information can be used also against you, especially if you go to politics. (I am not a politican, but close.)



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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 1, 2008 3:02am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests


PS 4. I have no receipts form the webpages. (Lance Grabmiller requested receips as a proof.) I hosted the the pages myself at servers wich are no more available.

It seems that all text wich was between "triange brackes" ( I don't know the right word in English) disappeared. The disappeard lines:

[... some removed text ...]

and

PS 2. If you put the tag [meta name="robots" content="noindex" /] to your pages, then they are not indexed by Google.

------

(Thecnical test: > .... &ls;)

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Poster: Face_ Date: Dec 1, 2008 1:43pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

My reply to that here: http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=219996

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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 3, 2008 12:29am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

The pages are now removed.

I think that Wayback is like a thief who comes to your home and steals your things. You necessary not even notice that someting is stolen until it is too late.

If you notice that something is stolen, then the thief is not quilty. Instead you must make huge efforts to proof that the stolen things are yours.

The judge who makes the decision who owns the stolen things is not a detached person. Instead the thief if also the judge.

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Poster: jonc Date: Dec 2, 2008 5:23am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Maybe Mr. Grabmiller will consider blocking your site temporarily until this is resolved. Please contact your former host. They should be able to validate information only you could provide. Confirmation from a credible third party should be enough.

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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 2, 2008 1:34pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Former host does not exist any more.

I have given enough information. Several times and different information. Always when I give some evidence, then after a couple days nobody knows anything about the evidence any more.

The latest email from Mr. Garbmiller:

____


Hello.

Can you please send the URL in question along with any previous e-mails I or you have sent. It is nearly impossible for me to connect this to any request due to the volume of e-mails we receive. Please note also, that the last four days our offices have been closed for the Thanksgiving Holiday, so there has been no one here to process any requests.

Thank you.

_______

I sent him yesterday the URL:s and 11 previous emails and some screenshots. Now waiting...

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Poster: Face_ Date: Dec 2, 2008 2:05pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Ok, that sounds good. But why don't you just send your entire website? Grabmiller has seen it now anyway.

And I doubt that there are any criminals working at the IA ;-)

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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 2, 2008 3:13pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Face_ said: Ok, that sounds good. But why don't you just send your entire website? Grabmiller has seen it now anyway.

-------

1. Do you rellay believe that he will install the pages to his PC to be able to examine them? He can examine the pages from archive.

2. I have sent enough pages as evidence. It is not necessary to send every 280 pages.

3. Because the archive is working lousy, in the archive is not all my pages. Many pages are corrupted. (Lacking images etc.) I don't want give to anybody a whole complete page set.

4. I belive that if I send every page, it does not forward my case in any way.

===================

Face_ said:

And I doubt that there are any criminals working at the IA ;-)

------

It is a crime to copy somebody elses text and photos without permission.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Dec 2, 2008 4:02pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Tower 7

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Poster: Santtu Date: Dec 3, 2008 12:26am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Tower 7 ???? What ???

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Dec 3, 2008 2:56pm
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Grassy Knoll, Baliwood Moonlanding

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Poster: Face_ Date: Nov 30, 2008 5:53am
Forum: web Subject: Re: Lack of response to deletion requests

Well, I think you make a very good point Barbacana. I hope this topic is seen by someone in the position to DO something about it. Storing everything that is ever written on the internet is an awe-inspiring goal, but a risky one too. The Wayback Machine might contain a website made by someone who now finds it embarassing or too personal. Or it contains pages which breaches copyright, such as websites offering cracks or serials. In my opinion, if a person or company can safely identify him-, her-, or itself as the copyright-holder of the archived content in question, and if he/she/it wants it gone, then the pages should be removed.

I am a long-time admirer of the IA, and especially the WM. It saddens me that such an important public service offers practically no user support or anything. I know that the IA is a non-profit company, running on donations, so I suppose they thought there isn't money for such a thing. But perhaps there are people who would like to handle deletion requests voluntarily?

Face